Meredith: Hi Libby

Meredith: How are you?

Libby: Hey

Meredith: How is your studying going?

Meredith: Hi Drenken!

Libby: I'm fine, it’s pretty good I had a busy weekend but I'm getting back into the swing of everything by now

Meredith: did you go travel to see friends or family?

Libby: Both, to New York

Meredith: Did you do anything fun drenken?

Meredith: I wonder if she is stuck

Meredith: hopefully she'll log out and in if so

Meredith: are you with us ok now drenken?

Meredith: there she goes :)

Meredith: How was your weekend, drenken?

Libby: I don’t see her typing

Meredith: well, she was able to sit, so that's good

Libby: oh ok

Meredith: we'll wait a sec more for Madison too

Meredith: an aside ... I tried to send the link on the patient that last week's lab was based on

Meredith: his parents had made a memorial website for him

Meredith: he died around age 3

Meredith: but it looks like the parents took the site down

Meredith: I figure maybe they needed to move on (?!)

Meredith: anyhow, sorry I couldn't send that on

Meredith: it was a very moving site

Libby: that’s so sad

drenken: I'm here ... sorry. My computer is running slow.

Meredith: np - I figured you'd type back soon

Meredith: mine is bad today too

Meredith: maybe the net?

drenken: Maybe

Meredith: I'll give Madison 1 more min

Meredith: I always worry about testing so you both will promise to call me right away if something goes wrong?

drenken: Yeah

Meredith: ok - it’s all in that email ... things DO happen!

Meredith: so bring those numbers along

Libby: yea I plan to take it on Thursday after work in Newark

Meredith: but I can fix things really fast if you call

Meredith: or send a paper test, etc. as needed

Meredith: ok - good luck

Libby: ok

Meredith: let's get going then ...

Meredith: so this week we have a topic everyone seems to have opinions on

Meredith: :)

Meredith: but I noticed listening to the news a lot of misinformation or just really badly-presented information is out there

Meredith: often with a good heart behind it

Libby: yea

Meredith: so, not pointing fingers, but seems to be the case

Meredith: it’s always good to know really what and why things are

Meredith: so that's really the agenda for this second lab

Meredith: nothing more

Meredith: I won't tell you to buy or ditch your SUVs :)

Libby: haha good to know

Meredith: so, that said, you were to look over some links with some questions in mind

Meredith: oh - one other aside ...

Meredith: I've noticed over the past 2 years that people starting with different perspectives tend to converge by the end of this class (they agree by the end)

Meredith: so don't worry if you think you might be disagreeing with someone from the get-go

Meredith: most everyone works on logic in the end :)

Meredith: ok - so there were some questions to think about

Meredith: so I suppose going through those one at a time would be good

Meredith: so, the first asked what data do you think is needed to determine if global warming is occurring?

Meredith: and feel free to think simple

Libby: I think we would need to know which geographic location we are talking about

Meredith: ok - what else?

Libby: to get data because looking globally is a different story. what are we focusing on?

Meredith: Hi Madison

Meredith: ok

MadisonMarie: hi omg I didn’t think we had this tonight

drenken: how the temperatures have changed (gone up)

MadisonMarie: I was just poppin in to check!

Meredith: sure - temperatures makes sense

Libby: I'd like to see precipitation levels (snow, rainfall, etc.) over a certain time period say the last 10 years

Meredith: ok

Meredith: have a seat Madison

Libby: Erosion levels as well will help

Meredith: so we want temp and precipitation levels ... and is 10 years a long enough time do you think?

Libby: well we could go 50 with a 10 year interval and then do like a 5 year interval for the most recent years

Libby: I'm not sure how "big picture" we are talking here

Meredith: we are going over the first question on this week's lab Madison, to get you oriented

drenken: I think we'll need to look longer than 10 yrs

MadisonMarie: ok I’m looking in My Courses

Meredith: well, the size of the big picture is something you can decide

Libby: ok what does everyone think? How long do we need to look back?

Meredith: what were some of the timescales on the web pages?

drenken: I read that the average temp changed since the mid 20th century

Meredith: so Libby is suggesting maybe looking back 50 years as a first suggestion

Meredith: have any of you heard of the little ice age?

Meredith: out of curiosity

Libby: nope

Meredith: maybe Google that real fast

Libby: ok

Meredith: it was a period of cold

MadisonMarie: I’m so sorry I can’t find the assignment for this is it under assignments?

Meredith: it is in week 5 now

Meredith: I moved it

Meredith: drenken - what do you think?

Libby: Wow is that true about New York harbor being frozen I can't even imagine that!!!

Libby: I'm shocked I’ve never heard of this

Meredith: yep - just a couple hundred years ago!

Libby: that's insane

Meredith: so temperature can change, and obviously cars weren't the issue then

Libby: yup

Meredith: so what might be a reasonable time frame with that in mind?

MadisonMarie: 500 yrs

Meredith: ok - what do you think drenken?

Libby: Somebody once told me temperature changes are like economics, that it inevitably changes - there will always be a rise and fall

Meredith: ok

Meredith: so what might help us deal at the rise and fall while still seeing if people are a cause in the recent past?

Meredith: and I think Madison is on a good track

drenken: maybe back to the 1800s...

MadisonMarie: well even if it is cyclical ... the temps can still be increasing

MadisonMarie: like let’s say there’s gonna be an ice age in the next 300 yrs

Libby: yea

MadisonMarie: It can be a warmer ice age than the last

Libby: I would need to see numbers

Meredith: good point

Meredith: so I think you all are coming to the conclusion that we should look back some to get a good baseline

Meredith: or at least to see how temps rise and fall when people didn't burn as much fuel

MadisonMarie: yeah

Meredith: so, I will provide you with temp data

Meredith: for some time back

Libby: Then I guess we'd need to look at carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere as well

Meredith: ok - good point

Meredith: since that's one of the green house gases they talk about a lot

Meredith: how far back on that data would be helpful, do you three think?

drenken: I was thinking 1800s, but I don't know if that’s far enough

Libby: Whatever information we could get as far back as possible I'm thinking they didn't have those types of tests too far back but maybe they researched recently?

Meredith: they actually have methods for going back a ways

Libby: I would like to see information before the start of the industrial revolution for sure

Meredith: using ice cores

Libby: ohhh ok

Meredith: ok - good point - at least before the industrial revolution

Meredith: ok - so will do on that

Meredith: all of this will be posted to the discussion board again, as an aside ... and we certainly aren't done yet

Meredith: but just to mention

Libby: I think the years before the industrial revolution are important but we could see the information in large intervals then get more precise during the more recent years

Libby: I don't think the changes will be as drastic back then

Meredith: ok - so maybe a scale big enough to see the cyclical patterns Madison mentioned

Meredith: good thinking

Libby: Yes

Meredith: what were some other hypotheses the web sites mentioned (apart from CO2) about causes of global warming?

Libby: But then more frequent information on a smaller scale for the more recent years

Meredith: there were a few ... some made more sense than others

Meredith: but we are just thinking of things to look into

Meredith: they don't have to be THE cause

MadisonMarie: did we talk about less trees and stuff?

Meredith: what were some other hypotheses that people put out there?

MadisonMarie: I don’t even know if that matters

Meredith: ok - so deforestation and the concrete-ification of cities?

Meredith: that one?

MadisonMarie: yea

Meredith: what was the idea with the concrete etc. in cities

Libby: Methane is said to be the 2nd leading cause

Meredith: and we'll keep methane in mind

Libby: I don't understand what it saying but it mentions rice a lot ...?

Meredith: with the cities and concrete, what was the idea there ... how was that used to explain global warming?

Meredith: ok – rice ... let's look into that in a sec ... that's interesting

Meredith: drenken, do you recall what the issue was with high-concrete areas?

Libby: I'm looking up the concrete thing

Meredith: the term is heat island I believe

Libby: Cement, the oldest engineered construction material, dating back to the Roman Empire, starts out as limestone and clay that are crushed to a powder and heated to a very high temperature (1500 degrees Celsius) in a kiln. At this high temperature, the mineral undergoes a transformation, storing energy in the powder.

drenken: no ... I’m looking back

Libby: That is what I found from a website

Libby: we can maybe look into that

Meredith: ok - or urban heat island is the other name

Meredith: what does it sound like it means?

Libby: Does the concrete store the heat from the city?

Libby: like the material itself?

Meredith: what do you others think?

MadisonMarie: idk about concrete but the blacktop obviously does

Meredith: here is a question for you

MadisonMarie: absorbs heat away

Meredith: when you see the weather report, is Philly (or NY) usually warmer or cooler than the surrounding suburbs?

MadisonMarie: yes

Meredith: which one?

drenken: warmer

MadisonMarie: oh ahahah warmer

Meredith: right

Meredith: warmer

Meredith: so the idea with urban heat islands is that most of the measuring people use to track global warming is done in cities

Meredith: so maybe we are just measuring warming cities but the surrounding parts are staying cool

Meredith: it's a hypothesis

Meredith: what might we look at to test that one?

MadisonMarie: BUT cities also have more traffic

Libby: But islands are warmer then other parts of the country too I though aren't landlocked parts more cold

drenken: what is this hypothesis saying? That the cities are causing the rising temps?

Meredith: or that we are measuring higher temps in the city and thinking that means the non-city areas are also rising when maybe they are not

Meredith: this is an idea some people use to explain global warming as something we measure but isn't real

drenken: ok

MadisonMarie: right so we’d have to compare city temps vs suburb temps

Meredith: because our measurements are often in the city

Meredith: do you all agree with Madison there?

MadisonMarie: yea but if icebergs are melting they’re melting

Meredith: comparing city and non-city temps?

MadisonMarie: we can’t make that up

Meredith: again, we are just looking into ideas ... not agreeing or disagreeing

MadisonMarie: gotcha

Meredith: we can agree or disagree next time with data to back us!

drenken: we do need to look into sub also ... not just the city

Meredith: right - so I think Madions's suggestion (seconded by drenken) is good for the heat island idea

Meredith: what other hypotheses were in those web pages?

Meredith: if you can't remember more I'll prod

Meredith: but will wait for you all to talk first

Meredith: we have people making carbon/methane and the heat island as 2 hypotheses so far

Meredith: there were more

MadisonMarie: water vapor increasing

MadisonMarie: increasing

Meredith: that is a hypothesis for sure

Meredith: is water vapor also a green house gas then?

MadisonMarie: yes and holds 2/3 the heat

Meredith: ok - so what might we want to have data-wise to look into that as a possibility?

MadisonMarie: yikes I have no idea

MadisonMarie: humidity levels?

Meredith: well, if water is also a green house gas, would we want data any different from data on C02?

Meredith: aside from vapor levels like you said?

Meredith: I mean, we'd be looking water and not CO2, but the rest would be the same (?)

Libby: It said that the global water vapor concentration and precipitation are increasing

Meredith: ok - so that would tie what Madison said with what you said earlier on precipitation

Libby: I know we mentioned that but what other causes other than fossil fuels have we found?

Meredith: there are 2 more in the links you saw (that I can think of at least)... again hypotheses

Meredith: one of the links mentioned how Mars is warming too

Meredith: what significance might that have?

drenken: does that have to do with solar energy?

Libby: It would mean an increase in temperature not only globally but in our solar system as well

Libby: Possible a breakdown of Mars' atmosphere? Letting more solar energy in?

Meredith: also other planets warming, I should add

Meredith: not just Mars

Meredith: so maybe what drenken suggested might be the case

drenken: I read that the sun is admitting more heat

Meredith: if it has to do with solar energy, what would make sense for us to look into for that one?

Meredith: in terms of specific data to get

drenken: variation in solar radiation

Libby: Maybe how beneficial switching from burning fossil fuels to using solar energy? how helpful it’s been?

Meredith: ok - I think drenken has a good point here too

Meredith: and we will look into solar energy as a possible thing to do

Meredith: but as a cause looking into solar output over time might make sense

MadisonMarie: wait if other planets are getting hotter

MadisonMarie: should we look into seeing if they are cyclical too

MadisonMarie: cuz if they’re NOT

MadisonMarie: then that could be a big deal

MadisonMarie: if it’s the first time their temps have risen if at all drastically

Meredith: ok

Meredith: I think one of you is typing

Meredith: so I'll wait a sec

Libby: We'll need to take into account the increases of the other planets VERSUS our like how drastic is the ratio between them and us

Libby: and what gases they are mainly composed of

MadisonMarie: yeah

Meredith: good points both of you

Meredith: ok - so we'll look into solar variations and its impact on various planets (including earth)

Meredith: there was one last idea in the web pages

Meredith: had to do with ocean currents

Meredith: did any of you read on that one or have you heard of it before?

Meredith: if not it’s OK

Meredith: I'll take that as a no lol

Meredith: which is fine if so

MadisonMarie: is that when the warm water

MadisonMarie: goes under icebergs

MadisonMarie: ...

Meredith: yes

Meredith: what is that idea about?

Meredith: that you can recall

Meredith: if anything

Libby: Isn't that more of an effect though

Meredith: could be Libby

Meredith: that the ocean currents are changing as a result (and not as a cause)

MadisonMarie: well

Libby: I didn't think of it as a cause rather an effect of the changing temperature and atmosphere green gas balance

Meredith: and that could well be

Libby: ok

MadisonMarie: idk I guess that water like gets to the icebergs and cools off and when some of the water freezes the salt runs off and makes the water more dense

Meredith: you are on the path there, Madison ... and that is part of the data you'll get

Meredith: since it is complicated we can leave it there

Meredith: and it might be more of a cause or more of an effect

Meredith: ok - so that's probably plenty brain storming. . .

Meredith: a lot of leads to look into

Meredith: and I think you'll find that the data show things to be pretty complicated

Meredith: but not more than we can deal with

Meredith: so, same as before, will post 3 sets of data

Libby: alright

Meredith: all related to what you mentioned

Meredith: and each of you takes just 1 of the 3

drenken: ok

Meredith: to explain to the others next time

Meredith: the more detail the better

MadisonMarie: k

Meredith: we'll be able to nix a couple from our list of possible global warming causes

Libby: Can we decide which 3 we will take like a day after she posts it drenken and Madison?

Meredith: and maybe keep more than we thought

Libby: because we always forget to tell each other

MadisonMarie: I’ll just take the 3rd one

MadisonMarie: lol to keep things easy

Meredith: I will number then

Meredith: so Madison gets #3 no matter what

Libby: I can take the 1st

Meredith: ok

Meredith: easy enough! lol

MadisonMarie: lol

Libby: just so we have a game plan if drenken doesn’t care

drenken: I’ve got 2

MadisonMarie: great

Libby: prefect thanks!

Meredith: ok - I'll try to post tonight

Max Chatnoir is Offline

Meredith: then see you all next week

Meredith: and good luck with your tests

MadisonMarie: ok thanks! Later!

Meredith: and call if something happens!

Meredith: ok - ttyl

drenken: Thanks