Meredith: hi ladies!

Sunnkist: Hi y'all

Sunnkist: How's Vegas?

Meredith: that is totally weird

Meredith: can you both see me right now?

Smac: hey sorry

Sunnkist: kinda yea

Smac: working on two computers ... lol ... how is everyone

Meredith: I'm underwater in my view

Meredith: so weird

Meredith: will log out and back in

Sunnkist: ok

Meredith: that seemed to do it

Meredith: so weird

Meredith: I took a snapshot of the water. . .

Sunnkist: hmm

Meredith: at least I wasn't teleported to something like that swingers bar something weird zapped me into once!

Smac: I’m sorry about last week. That emergency the first week I missed turned into three weeks in the hospital for a dear friend.

Meredith: sorry to hear that . . .are they ok?

Smac: How is everyone doing ... yes they finally let him go home. Still long road ahead to recover

Sunnkist: can that happen in here?

Meredith: being teleported to weird places on accident?

Meredith: yes

Meredith: very very rarely

Meredith: less now than a year ago

Smac: wow

Meredith: yep - just gotta teleport out

Meredith: it's happened to me 2 times now since I made my account 21 months ago, if that's any measure

Sunnkist: very weird

Meredith: and one was today and all I saw was water

Sunnkist: and SMAC I'm sorry about your friend

Smac: thanks. You know it rains it pours... lol

Meredith: Hi Kurt

Smac: He is doing much better and home where he wants to be

Kurt: hi

Sunnkist: very good!

Meredith: well, we wish him the best

Meredith: ok - so we are all here

Meredith: and congrats on making it this far

Meredith: I believe next week is you last week of quizzes etc

Meredith: and next week is last week of group VCs

Meredith: so you are close

Smac: wow

Meredith: if you have any make-up work to do I recommend getting cracking

Meredith: not much of a grace period allowed by the Univ. (like none)

Smac: when is the last day of class ...

Smac: We should have everything submitted by that day

Meredith: also, once I get home tomorrow from this conference I'll start bugging you about final exams

Meredith: it's in the schedule SMAC

Smac: thanks

Smac: sorry

Meredith: I don’t have that avail right now

Meredith: np

Sunnkist: I think it's the 30th

Meredith: I just am out of town and have few resources at my disposal at the moment

Meredith: but WebCT has them

Meredith: so . . . .

Smac: ok

Meredith: any other questions before we get going?

Meredith: or needs

Meredith: or anything class related

Meredith: will take the silence as a no?

Smac: nothing here

Meredith: ok

Meredith: ok - so this week’s VC

Meredith: you all looked into one of the data sets

Meredith: who did which set?

Kurt: I did set 1

Smac: I did set three

Meredith: ok - so Sunn is 2

Meredith: great

Meredith: so we'll go in numerical order

Meredith: and like in the past, think of yourself as the teacher

Meredith: instructing us on what you found out

Kurt: ok

Meredith: so give us an explanation of the topic

Meredith: and the implications . . . the more detail the better

Meredith: and I'll hush now :)

Kurt: I basically just researched information on both the ozone and solar activity; specifically whether or not there was any direct correlations between those two and global warming

Kurt: for the ozone, I found out that both the ozone itself and the temperature are interconnected and subject to each other

Kurt: the ozone has in fact depleted over the past decade

Kurt: sorry, century

Meredith: to what extent (just curious)

Kurt: well it's measure in Dobson Units ... which is a measurement to measure the stratosphere

Kurt: density and amount I assume

Meredith: ok

Meredith: did you get a relative decreased value or %?

Meredith: just curious

Meredith: I didn't have time to look into it so was curious

Kurt: no however, I do know that the hole in the ozone in the Antarctic that has increased

Meredith: ok

Kurt: as it has enlarged since the 70s, it has increased from 0 million sq kilometers to 25 million square kilometers (on average)

Meredith: interesting

Smac: wow

Sunnkist: oh man

Meredith: I'll hold off on questions but have a mess of them lol

Meredith: keep going - this is interesting

Kurt: although this would not support a global warming argument much, it does prove to be a direct cause for more radiation let into the earth (specifically around that area)

Meredith: ok - how are ozone and temperature related, btw - how do they influence each other on a global scale?

Kurt: according to a chart, temperature changes directly with ozone variation

Meredith: so as ozone increases temp increases or vice versa?

Meredith: or the opposite I mean

Kurt: in September, ozone layer is the thinnest while temperatures are the hottest, when the ozone thickens, winter begins

Kurt: well the ozone is mainly dependent on the temperature, not vice-versa

Kurt: however, the temperature measured is stratospheric temperature, not global temperature

Meredith: is that true on a global scale?

Meredith: like if the ozone layer is thin, is the globe warmer or not?

Meredith: remember our summer is winter on the other hemisphere

Meredith: so although the trend might appear to go that way for the N. hemisphere, it may not be the cases looking at the whole globe

Kurt: yes... well not quite sure what it is on a global scale, but on an atmospheric scale, the temperature and amount are directly related

Meredith: ok

Meredith: did you read anything about how ozone acts like a blanket insulating the earth?

Kurt: yes ... that's it's whole purpose

Meredith: ok

Meredith: so less ozone would mean we heat up and cool down more drastically?

Kurt: that's why temperatures during night and day, and between seasons around the hole of the ozone, are more unstable then where we are. It may not have long term trends, but the instability is extraordinary

Meredith: ok

Kurt: without out an ozone layer.......

Kurt: sun's warmth and energy are not kept on the earth... thus once the sun was to disappear (like at night) the area would cool significantly... similar to a desert, but more extreme

Meredith: interesting

Smac: we need it to stay in place :)

Meredith: lol

Meredith: we'll all pass on becoming ice truckers?

Meredith: lol

Kurt: yea

Meredith: ok - keep going lol

Sunnkist: ha

Kurt: in conclusion, ozone layer does vary with temperature and affects global temperature, but not in the way we thought it would.... the earth may still get warmer despite the ozone, but the stability would vary drastically

Meredith: ok

Meredith: how about the solar variation part

Kurt: ok.......

Kurt: solar variation refers to the variation in the sun's energy emission

Kurt: it runs on 11-year cycles where the sun's energy varies, increasing and decreasing

Kurt: these changes however are extremely minimal

Kurt: for instance........

Meredith: uh oh - his free internet may have cut out lol

Meredith: :)

Meredith: we'll wait a sec

Kurt: as more and more sunspots appear (areas on the sun that are cooler than those around it), the temperature and CO2 increases indirectly

Meredith: interesting

Sunnkist: that is interesting

Smac: wow

Meredith: did you get a sense for what was going on with that?

Kurt: not really, that's what I hoped to learn more about

Meredith: how did temp and CO2 vary with just plain solar output (sunspots aside)?

Kurt: well sunspot variation had little to do with solar output.... the temp and CO2 has increase though while solar output has slightly increased (I believe)

Meredith: ok

Meredith: over the long-term did it look like solar variation impacted earth temps?

Meredith: like way back when?

Kurt: not by much, no

Meredith: ok

Kurt: well maybe a little

Kurt: by not too much

Meredith: ok

Meredith: some graphs show a pretty high correlation, but the shift isn't huge

Meredith: so it depends on the point of view

Kurt: yea

Meredith: great - so what kind of last statement would you offer about the things you looked into?

Kurt: although both topics I researched affect temperature and CO2 levels, the increase in one has not severely affected temperature to a degree to say that it is the cause of global warming

Meredith: ok

Meredith: well thanks for that

Meredith: good job

Meredith: so Sunn, what can you tell us?

Sunnkist: ok well I hate to say this but I’m at work and a few people just walked in so I might be in an out I’m very sorry

Sunnkist: but I researched ocean currents

Meredith: ok

Meredith: well let's have Smac go then

Meredith: if you need that

Sunnkist: I think I can manage

Meredith: ok

Sunnkist: The ocean currents are responsible for keep temperature moderate from pole to poles

Sunnkist: So they take warm water from the equator and move it north warming the North Atlantic

Sunnkist: The warmer water is on the surface of the ocean while the cooler wate sinks deep into the ocean

Sunnkist: This circulation is called the thermohaline circulation

Meredith: ok

Sunnkist: North Atlantic waters are relatively salty compared with other parts of the world ocean. Salty water is denser than fresh water. Cold water is denser than warm water. When the warm, salty waters of the North Atlantic release heat to the atmosphere, they become colder and begin to sink. It also helps draw warm, salty tropical surface waters northward to replace the sinking waters. This process is called “thermohaline circulation,” from the Greek words “thermos” (heat) and “halos” (salt).

Meredith: ok

Meredith: so there is a cycle based on saltiness and temperature

Meredith: with cool things sinking

Sunnkist: yes

Meredith: is something going on with them these days?

Sunnkist: Yes

Sunnkist: due to the warming of the temperatures the glaciers in Greenland are melting

Meredith: ok

Sunnkist: which results in freshwater flowing into the North Atlantic which is decreasing the salinity of the water

Meredith: ok

Sunnkist: With a an influx of warm water or fresh water the circulation will slow down or cease

Meredith: ok

Sunnkist: if that happens Europe will experience a severe change in temperature resulting in extremely cold winters

Sunnkist: and regional cooling will occur even if the Earth is warming

Meredith: interesting

Sunnkist: other extremities such as flooding in some areas, droughts in others, more frequent and intense El Nino events

Meredith: ok

Meredith: is El Nino related to these circulation cycles?

Sunnkist: Also, in effect with changes in ocean currents is the increase or decrease in water vapor , the ocean currents play a direct role in the hydro-cycle and with the amounts of water vapor in the atmosphere which is a major greenhouse gas

Meredith: ok

Sunnkist: It talked about the fact that El Niño would intensify with the shut-down of the circulation but that's about it

Meredith: interesting

Sunnkist: As of right now they can't predict if this cooling will happen within 5-10 years and be a severe change which will decrease global warming or if it will be a gradual change which might not affect global warming at all

Meredith: ok

Tek Zeno is Online

Sunnkist: With that information I believe that the ocean currents may have a hand in the changing temperatures but does not CAUSE global warming

Meredith: ok

Meredith: interesting info

Meredith: that set was the most complex by far

Sunnkist: a lot of confusing info

Meredith: a least in terms of getting a clear answer

Meredith: well thanks for that

Meredith: and Smac, you must have had the human impact part

Sunnkist: does anyone have any questions I know I was confused the first time I read thru it

Smac: I researched Urban Islands & the Greenhouse Effect. Ok here is what I learned . . . let’s start with Green house gases. They are gases present in the earth's atmosphere which reduce the loss of heat into space and therefore contribute to global temperatures through the "greenhouse effect." without these gases the temperature on earth would be uninhabitable. On the flip side levels that are too high the planet could get lethal levels, like on Venus it is about 467 C. This Gas comes from natural and industrial processes. Currently the CO2 levels of 380 ppmv according to some things I read this is 100 PPMV higher than during pre-industrial times. I also saw another chart that displayed that the CO2 levels have shot up since "human activity" has started to produce MASS CO2. Another chart also shows that just since the 70's Carbon Dioxide, Methane, Nitrous Oxide, CFC-12, CFC-11 have all made huge increases. it also shows that fossil fuel burning since the 1900s has increased and contributed. whew...k.. Urban Islands..

Meredith: hang on

Smac: k

Meredith: don't copy and paste that much at one lol

Meredith: once

Smac: i typed it in sorry

Smac: just started going

Smac: lol

Meredith: ok

Meredith: give us a sec to read then

Smac: ok

Meredith: I'll recopy and paste

Meredith: one sec

Meredith: I researched Urban Islands & the Greenhouse Effect. Ok here is what I learned let’s start with Green house gases.

Meredith: They are gases present in the earth's atmosphere which reduce the loss of heat into space and therefore contribute to global temperatures through the "greenhouse effect." without these gases the temperature on earth would be uninhabitable.

Meredith: On the flip side levels that are too high the planet could get lethal levels, like on Venus it is about 467 C. This Gas comes from natural and industrial processes.

Sunnkist: you can open the chat window to see it all

Sunnkist: in case you miss anything

Meredith: right

Meredith: just so I can read it too lol

Sunnkist: oh ok sorry

Meredith: Currently the CO2 levels of 380 ppmv according so some things I read this is 100 PPMV higher than during pre-industrial times. I also saw another chart that displayed that the CO2 levels have shot up since "human activity" has started to produce MASS CO2.

Smac: sorry.. Thought it would easier to have it all there... ha guess not

Meredith: Another chart also shows that just since the 70's Carbon Dioxide, Methane, Nitrous Oxide, CFC-12, CFC-11 have all made huge increases. it also shows that fossil fuel burning since the 1900s has increased and contributed. whew...k.. Urban Islands..

Meredith: ok - so what you wrote there Smac - what would you say it means?

Smac: well first any questions on green house

Meredith: in a sentence or two

Smac: Basically we need greenhouse gases

Smac: HOWEVER we are producing so much CO2 that it might "insulate" us to well

Meredith: ok

Meredith: what % of CO2 on earth is human generated?

Smac: this is what 'they" would say is causing our increasing temps

Meredith: did you see numbers on that?

Smac: oh - I think I do have that

Smac: 43 i think

Sunnkist: 43% IS HUMAN GENERATED

Smac: respiration

Smac: fossil fuels

Smac: deforestation

Meredith: ok - I see where you got that

Meredith: the respiration value is just life generally

Meredith: and mainly plants

Smac: only 57 is from the ocean

Meredith: the human fraction is 5%

Smac: oh sorry the chart I looked at had it broken down differently

Meredith: so humans are responsible for 5% of all CO2 in the atmosphere

Meredith: right - the respiration didn't mean human respiration

Smac: HA ok

Smac: sorry

Meredith: np

Sunnkist: oh ok

Smac: yeah it has another chart talking about plans photosynthesis is 40%

Meredith: ok

Smac: however the other charts do show an increase since the industrial revolution

Kurt: I’ll have to go soon

Meredith: must have been sink and sources. . and the 40% is how much plants absorb I think

Meredith: ok

Smac: Cars, and other things.

Meredith: ok

Smac: Then we have Urban Islands basically this is like.........

Smac: example... DC

Smac: Everyone been there?

Meredith: yes

Kurt: yea

Sunnkist: yes

Smac: ok Well if you have been there in the Dead of summer like i have been the past few weeks.... the city temp is much higher than the "country" or outer communities.

Meredith: ok

Smac: the examples I was looking at was with Japan..

Smac: but it can relate.

Smac: NO wind

Smac: tall buildings

Smac: the heat kinda cooks the concentrated area

Meredith: ook

Smac: So you get HOT SPOTS kinda

Meredith: did you get the feeling that urban island effect impacts climate globally?

Smac: yes and no

Smac: i kinda felt like it affected the area around it,

Smac: however I don`t think that it could only effect one area. it would have to effect everything right?

Meredith: what you said makes sense

Meredith: and I know Kurt needs to go

Smac: yeah me too....

Meredith: so in the interest of time I'm going to force the last week's ideas on you

Meredith: and will post that tonight

Meredith: or tomorrow

Meredith: to the discussion board

Smac: ok

Smac: thanks

Sunnkist: ok

Meredith: and hope we can come to useful conclusions then

Meredith: you all have a good week

Smac: thanks

Kurt: k thanks

Meredith: and will talk to you next time

Kurt: u too

Meredith: ttyl